JAMES DAVIES MEDIA: February 2010

Piers with James at 'The Hansom Cab', near Earls Court

Piers Morgan interview web by jamesdaviesmedia

Misadventures of a Big Mouth Brit, by Piers Morgan, published by Ebury Press

As a trainee reporter, I’ve been asked more times than I care to remember, ‘who’s your favourite journalist?’ When asked this question, most people expect me to say I’d like to follow in the footsteps of Jeremy Bowen, Jon Snow, Robert Peston and others of that ilk.

Even when I explain I’d like to have my own chat show, it’s taken as a given that I’ll retort the legend that is Sir Michael Parkinson.
So when I respond Piers Morgan, the majority gasp and look at me in horror.
In fact, when I told one of my university lecturers this, he paused and simply muttered disappointedly, “oh, one of those.”

As a young aspiring journalist, I must admit, I happen to like him and in fact think we’re actually quite similar. I’m not the only one. When I went to cover Michael Jackson’s press conference in London, twelve months ago, I met one of Piers’ oldest friends-media King-pin, Alan Edwards- who said I reminded him of a young Piers- to this day I’m not sure whether that was meant as a compliment.

Although I think it’s fair to say that Piers Morgan, or Piers Pughe-Morgan as he was born, is the human equivalent of Marmite, you can’t deny or do anything but admire his ability as a journalist.

At just twenty-eight, Piers was Editor of the News of the World, and two years later headhunted by the Daily Mirror. The reason? A unique gift for finding, investigating and selling a story, and knowing just where to look and who to talk to.

Piers changed the face of popular journalism, taking the British press into a new era, and introducing the nation to the cult of celebrity.

Despite his infamous sacking, where he was escorted off of the Daily Mirror’s premises, he set a standard during his tenure, that has been much emulated, but never equalled.

Perhaps the most famous newspaper editor of recent years, Piers is never far from controversy, with his uncompromising personality and forceful opinions always guaranteed to cause a storm.

But it was with the help of his friend, the cultural phenomenon that is Simon Cowell, that has helped Piers burst onto our T.V screens and become a true global superstar. Judging talent on both sides of the Atlantic, Piers, the ultimate celebrity insider, is once again at the helm of mainstream media.

Although Piers often seems vain, egocentric, occasionally pompous and often wincingly smug, throughout my interview I found him to be honest, witty, balanced, charming and truly capable of laughing at himself.

In an exclusive interview for James Davies Media, Piers describes the experiences that shaped the boy and created the man who would go on to carve out such a dazzlingly brilliant career.

From starting at a local newspaper in south London to judging talent on one of America’s biggest shows, Piers, one of this country’s brightest and boldest personalities, tells me the real story beyond the glare of the media spotlight.

James: We know a lot about your illustrious and incredibly successful career. From working in Fleet Street editing the News of the World and the Mirror to Britain's Got Talent but we don't know too much about your childhood. What were you like as a child?

Piers: My mother says I was always quite a happy child. When I wasn’t tormenting and torturing my brothers- which is what older brothers should always do of course to their younger brothers- I think I was a happy boy. I had a very pleasant upbringing. I was a bit mischievous at school. I wouldn’t say I was exactly an academic scholar because I preferred running card schools and playing cricket to getting my head down but I wouldn’t say I was a bad young man.

James: What do you think those who taught you and knew you at school will think of your success?

Piers: Some of them will be absolutely flabbergasted. There will be one guy, who one parents evening with my mother simply looked her in the eye and said “The only thing I want to say about your son is that he’s an absolute buffoon”- so I’d imagine he’s going to be fairly gobsmacked by what’s happened. But as for the others, I think they’ll probably look at me with a wry smile and probably think he was always a bit naughty but they quite liked me.

James: What sort of ambitions did you have growing up?

Piers: I always wanted to be a journalist, always. My mother remembers me reading the newspapers avidly when I was about six or seven, which I now realise having sons of my own of that age is probably quite an unusual thing to do when you’re a six or seven year old. So I used to read the Daily Mail and stuff which probably explains a lot about why I am, the way I am now. But I think I always had this real desire to be a journalist. That’s why I say to people who want to be one now- unless you’ve absolutely got the passion for it like I had I wouldn’t go into it.

James: Where did your interest in journalism come from? Do you think it was just inbuilt in you?

Piers: Yea, I think so. My grandfather dabbled a little bit in journalism- he used to do private undercover reporting for various papers and I think it was just one of those things. I just had an absolutely insatiable lust for news- I just couldn’t get enough of news and I think if you’ve got that in you then you just have to follow your dream a bit.

James: You trained at Harlow College. How did that affect your life? Were you a normal student, going out drinking or were you always focused on what you wanted to do?

Piers: Oh god no. I got drunk at least three times a week and I’m talking seriously drunk. We used to drink Grolsch out of those bottles of pot. I used to drink like twelve or thirteen in a night which is the kind of thing that could hospitalise me now but it was great fun. Harlow’s a fantastic place to go and get drunk. I was also on a course where there were fifty-six pupils in my year of which fifty-one were women- so for a young red blooded man like me aged nineteen who liked a drink and a pretty girl it was about as good as life got.

James: You've interviewed some remarkable people. From Princess Diana to Michael Jackson. What was that like?

Piers: Yea, I think the one thing that I’ve never been is in awe or star struck around famous people which has probably held me in very good stead because I’ve seen so many people who just crumble and start trembling when they see somebody famous when actually they’re all just human beings and I was always able I think because of my background of going to a comprehensive and a prep school I sort of had the posh end of education and the rough end if you like and I think it taught me to mix with anybody. I’m equally at ease with a coal miner as the Prime Minister. To me they’re all the same, they’re all human beings.

James: How has fame affected you? Did you ever think you would be as famous, and perhaps more famous than those you interview?

Piers: (Laughs) Not really- I didn’t think I’d go into television in quite this way but I always fancied being famous because I thought it was a lot easier than working for a living and the reality is that it is. If you can deal with what I think are very minimal downsides i.e. the loss of your privacy, the so called intrusion, people coming up to you all the time- if you can deal with that which I always think is very easy to deal with then actually being famous is great. You get treated very well by people. Everyone I meet is always very nice. You get upgraded to lovely suites like the one I’m in now, you get driven around in flash limos that somebody else pays for, you get upgraded on flights, eat at nice tables in restaurants- I mean what’s not to love?

James: You mention the issue of privacy. Do you think that’s destroying journalism at the moment?

Piers: Journalism is better now than it’s ever been in my experience. It was completely lawless in the 80’s. There was no privacy law then, no PCC, hardly anybody sued the papers and so the balance of power was completely with the newspapers which was dangerous and the balance of power now I’d say has gone back to the celebrities and is now coming back to a more sensible middle ground where everybody kind of knows the limitations. I mean the papers went too far, then the celebs went too far and hopefully we’re reaching a point where both sides realise they need each other.

James: You said you quite like the fame side of it all. Did you ever imagine you'd be as successful as you've become?

Piers: No but I did always work very hard and I always think that the harder you work the luckier you seem to get and all the people I know who’ve made it- like Simon Cowell and Cheryl Cole- they’ve worked very hard . There are no short cuts in this business. If you want to get on you’ve got to be prepared to get up at four o’clock in the morning and work to midnight and do that for weeks on end, as we all do on these shows.
It’s tough- the rewards are great and the fame’s lovely and everything else but staying at the top of this sort of business is hard work and if you’re not prepared to do it then don’t start.

James: Why do you think you’ve done so well? What have you done differently?

Piers: Well I think you have to get lucky. I mean I was lucky that Kelvin Mckenzie spotted me at The Sun and thought ok we’ll give this guy a run on the Bizarre column. I was lucky that Rupert Murdoch spotted me and thought I know what I’ll do I’m going to give him the News of The World. None of this is normal and I was in the right place at the right time when people wanted to take a bit of a gamble with a younger guy. I think that once I’d been given those amazing jobs I did work my absolute damndest to make it work for them and for me- and I think they would say that. But the original stroke of luck is just sitting there in the right chair at the right moment when people like that who can change your life do change your life.

James: You’ve mixed with some of the biggest stars around. Why do you think some people are at the forefront of life while others sit back?

Piers: Well I’m not sure that everybody wants to be famous for one. A lot of my friends who live in my old village where I came from are very happy not being famous and not being rich and everything else. They’re quite happy with their lives. They don’t have all the weird stresses that come from fame and fortune of which there are many because I see it really corrupts people. I think I’m lucky like Simon (Cowell) that we became well known in our 40’s so we’d seen so many people cock it up that we realised the only way to enjoy it is to have a laugh and not to take it all too seriously. If you take it seriously you’re going to get buried in this game because it’s so seductive and you start to really believe your own bullshit and start to think you’re wonderful. When that happens it’s the rocky road to ruin.

James: What do your family and friends think of your success and all that you've been able to achieve, because you've been incredibly successful haven't you?

Piers: If you ask my mother she’d say she worries about me all the time and that I work too hard. I mean it’s a very precarious business and she hates all the critics having a go at me like any mother would. However, if you ask my two brothers, one of whom is about to go to Afghanistan, they’d say I’m a damned lucky little git who has the time of my life, gets ridiculously over paid for something that a monkey could do and they think it’s all ridiculous and the truth is probably somewhere in-between (laughs).

James: Do you think the fact that you’re brother is in the army and goes to war keeps your feet on the ground more than most celebs?

Piers: It doesn’t bring me down to earth but it makes me realise how comparatively purile and inconsequential my jobs are. I write for a living, knock about columns, I do fun T.V shows, none of it’s going to change the world. I hope that it entertains people and cheers people up a bit and becomes a talking point but the reality is my brother will be going to war with the Taliban in a few weeks time and he’s got four kids at home and that’s a real job- I don’t even pretend that mine’s in the same conversational bandwidth to be honest with you.

James: What do you like to do away from the spotlight?

Piers: I go to watch Arsenal whenever I can. I have a season ticket there with my kids- have done for over twenty years and been following them for forty years. I play cricket still- love that. I love playing and watching cricket. Other than that I like going to nice restaurants, drinking good French wine, having a laugh with friends, seeing family and lying on a beach. That’s about it really.

James: Where did your interest in cricket come from because that’s something you’ve always had a passion for isn’t it?

Piers: I played for the England prep schools team when I was about twelve or thirteen and I was quite good then. I could have played for Sussex school boys- I had a few run outs for them but then I went to the comprehensive where they didn’t play any cricket and it took me about another year to get back into it with the village and by then I’d missed the boat really, but I love cricket- it’d always been a real passion of mine and I count people like Freddie Flintoff and Ian Botham and all my heroes as really good friends of mine now which is great. I just love hanging out with them. If you ask me about who would you rather hang out with- Madonna, Beyonce, Jack Nicholson or Ian Botham, I’d say Ian Botham.

James: Who’s your perfect interview and why?

Piers: The one I’d love to do is Jack Nicholson because he’s the ultimate star. He doesn’t give a damn how he looks and he’s always pictured on boats in the middle of summer with six girls under twenty-five clutching six packs of beer and pizzas, looking about seventy-six stone with this big grin on his face and that’s the way to go isn’t it?

James: If you were to have a dinner party with three or four guests who would you have and why?

Piers: Freddie Flintoff because he’s absolutely hilarious, drinks like a fish, tells great stories and he’s a lot smarter than people think he is.

I’d have Stevie Wonder to sing.

I’d have Marilyn Monroe-I’ve just read a book about her which was fascinating. I’d love to know what she was really like beneath all the media caricature, so she’d have to be there.

The fourth one would be Warren Buffen- the richest man in the world because he’s a fascinating guy and he’s got a very simple view of how to make money.

So I could talk cricket, learn how to make money, chat up Marilyn Monroe and have Stevie Wonder singing in the background. That’s a pretty good diner party.

James: You interviewed Michael Jackson who recently died. What was he like to interview?

Piers: Well I interviewed him and shook his hand through a glove. He’s an extraordinary character- very strange sort of schizophrenic to interview because one minute he’d have this high pitched voice and the next minute quite a lower pitched voice talking about business as if he was a really hardnosed business man. He was a strange guy Jackson. I felt sorry for him to a certain degree but he was addicted to fame and addicted to celebrity and he milked that for all he was worth. It’s very sad what happened to him but I wouldn’t like to have seen Michael Jackson get too old because if he got too old he’d hate himself even more. He’s one of those guys who found the ageing process horrendous.

James: As someone who's been incredibly successful within the media, what do you think makes a good journalist?

Piers: I think tenacity’s a massive thing I think. You’ve got to try and be charming. People have got to want to talk to you and they’ll only do that if they feel slightly charmed by you. You’ve got to be very hard working, very dedicated. The kind of person who’s about to go to a dinner party with all your favourite people and a big story breaks you don’t even hesitate to cancel the dinner. That just shows you it’s in your blood. You’ve got to be a stickler for accuracy. The one thing I hated on The Mirror was getting things wrong because if you get it wrong people laugh at you and what’s the point in that? And obviously in the end I had to quit or be sacked over the Iraq photos which turned out to be apparently wrong but as a general rule I liked accuracy over everything else because if it was true it was deadly information. If it was untrue it was pointless.

James: You mention your sacking. What was it like going from editing a national newspaper to having nothing?

Piers: The honest truth is that I was getting a bit bored anyway. I’d been doing editing papers for eleven years and it’s incredibly tiring and draining. I also felt I’d done some of the biggest stories that were ever going to come across an Editors desk- I was right. 9/11, Diana’s death, Dunblane- this is stuff that stuff I don’t think has been replicated in any sense since so I think I did get a spectacular decade for news events to edit the paper in and had a great time but was getting itchy feet and it all kind of came at the right time for me so I was actually quite relieved to be out of the day to day mayhem. I miss some of the journalists and I miss some of the fun but I don’t miss newspapers because the importance of newspapers is eroding by the day.

James: Simon Cowell always strikes me as an extraordinarily interesting character. What’s he like to work with?

Piers: He’s an extraordinarily interesting character. He’s tough, he’s demanding. He’ll reward you well and be loyal if you work hard and if you constantly evolve. He’s always looking to see evolution from everyone that works on the show. If you just tread water and take the money and think you’re wonderful then he’ll soon get rid of you- I think he’s right to do that. That’s what keeps his shows fresh and it all keeps us on our toes. But he’s also very, very funny and very entertaining to work with.

James: What do you enjoy most about your job?

Piers: I think the thing I most enjoy about my job is the unpredictability. You’re never quite sure what’s coming next. Travelling’s great. I’ve spent four months of the year travelling around America and have had a great time doing that. I really love America. I do my other travel show which took me this year to China, Marbella and Vegas and I love doing those- so I think the variety, the travelling, the fact I’m not chained to a desk anywhere- I don’t even have an office- I just work from home whenever I’m in the country. And the fact that I choose what I want to do now and I don’t do anything under duress or for the money- I’m in that fortunate position where I can just choose to do what I like doing.

James: At the moment you’re doing Piers Morgan’s Life Stories. With Jonathan Ross finishing his chat show would you ever like to do that sort of chat?

Piers: Not at the moment. I think the thing about Life Stories is that it was getting fifty per cent higher ratings than Jonathan’s anyway, which confirmed to me that the British public, as I suspected, actually were getting a bit fed up with three people coming down a stair well plugging their latest album or book and actually wanted a more in depth interview and so I think one of Jonathan’s problems was that he was only getting like three million for his interviews and I was getting four and a half. I’ve re-invented the chat show format to make it one guest, their life story, more dramatic, more emotional, more in depth and I think that’s working and I think it’s the others that are now looking at what we’re doing and thinking well that’s working better than we are.

James: What advice would you give me as a trainee journalist wanting to become, if possible, the next Piers Morgan and follow in your footsteps?

Piers: Well you have to be annoying. I was writing to endless people all the time. Editors of papers, magazines, I was writing stories, sending in interviews and doing what you’re doing. I mean you’re tenacious, you got hold of me, you wouldn’t take no for an answer and you got the interview and I think that’s what you’ve got to keep doing and you’ll find that eventually people do crack. They’re not all going to but occasionally you’ll get a hit and when you get a hit you’ve got to make sure you try and sell it somewhere and then sell it again.

James: Have I been annoying?

Piers: (Pause) Not that annoying actually. You’ve been quite polite and I thought you were quite good.

James: Thanks Piers I really appreciate that.

Piers: No problem mate. You take care.